Re: [dq-rules] Re: Compiled Armor

[Esko Halttunen <esko.halttunen@luukku.com>]

> Armour
> 
> Cloth is a strong armour and has been used as such.  The Greek hoplite
> often used layers of linen glued together to make a strong Armour to
> protect the body (Phillip of Macedon's grave contained an iron version
> of this defense).  Some medieval soldiers wore their padding over
> their chain mail. It was far more effective at deflecting arrows than
> chain mail. Chain mail tended to hold the point and allow the arrow to
> penetrate the armour

I'm not surprised. Such heavily layered cloth armor would, I think, be more like leather armor (or the listed soft leather), and the cloth/heavy furs line is the same as in the original DQ book, that's why it's there.

> 
> Don't be so dismissive of hide armour.  During the English Civil War
> (mid 17th century) the soldiary wore a "Buff coat"  This was a coat
> made of raindeer hide and was (by the reports) capable of stopping all
> but the strongest sword cut.  These things were thick, the one I have
> seen (Glasgow Kelvingrove Museaum) was about 5mm of solid hide, but it
>  did have full length sleaves so must have still been reasonably flexible

I've tried on a leather cuirass (made by a friend's father who is a cobbler), and the thing was roughly 6 to 8 mm thick, and it'd have taken some serious hacking to get through that. My friends actually tested it, placed a block of wood inside the armor and took a full-strength stab with a sharp knife at it, and barely made a nick to it. The cuirass didn't weigh very much, certainly less than a comparable amount of hide, though it was a bit restrictive. A hide armor would not be quite as stiff due to lack of boiling (so the attached sleeves are viable), but it'd be heavy, and I don't think it's a bad implementation, the effectiveness is the same as leather armor. I suppose the description is a bit dismissive, but can be changed.

> 
> Bridandine is metal plates sandwiched between layers of cloth/leather
> and riveted to both of these layers.  A fine example in the Royal
> Armouries at Leeds has a facing of red velvet with the heads of the
> rivets gilded where they go through this layer.  Some excellent
> examples were dug up at Visby in Denmark, the weather was hot so the
> bodies were buried before the armour was stripped.  This site has also
> provided insights to the Medieval styles of combat by the marks left
> on their skeletons and Armour (well worth reading).

I don't think my description of brigandine was that much off, was it?

> 
> Lamellar.  The metal plates were wired together and did not need a
> backing (it still needed padding).  This made a defense stronger than
> scale (there was no direction from which penetration was easy), but
> less flexible, but still more flexible than plate

I'll check the description and amend it. I used the Palladium Books Compendium of Weapons, Armor and Castles as a source for armor (has some very good illustrations), so it might have some errors.

> 
> What are your rules on alternative materials for the construction of
> these armours?

I didn't really think about that very much when writing up the list. I think assumed base material is iron or low quality steel. Obviously softer stuff like bronze would give 1 less protection and weigh less. How much is debatable, maybe 0.5 to 1 weight factor less, depending on material.

Using better materials (such as high quality steel) would give one more prot and also weigh a bit less (0.25 to 0.5), and when you bring in mithril and stuff like that, it's up to the GM to decide.

For leather & hide armors, I think taking the basic NA rating of whatever beast (e.g. chimaera) would be a good default starting point and figuring it from there.

Edi

*************************

dbarrass_2000 wrote:
> Armour
> 
> Cloth is a strong armour and has been used as such.  The Greek hoplite
> often used layers of linen glued together to make a strong Armour to
> protect the body (Phillip of Macedon's grave contained an iron version
> of this defense).  Some medieval soldiers wore their padding over
> their chain mail. It was far more effective at deflecting arrows than
> chain mail. Chain mail tended to hold the point and allow the arrow to
> penetrate the armour
> 
> Don't be so dismissive of hide armour.  During the English Civil War
> (mid 17th century) the soldiary wore a "Buff coat"  This was a coat
> made of raindeer hide and was (by the reports) capable of stopping all
> but the strongest sword cut.  These things were thick, the one I have
> seen (Glasgow Kelvingrove Museaum) was about 5mm of solid hide, but it
>  did have full length sleaves so must have still been reasonably
>  flexible
> 
> Bridandine is metal plates sandwiched between layers of cloth/leather
> and riveted to both of these layers.  A fine example in the Royal
> Armouries at Leeds has a facing of red velvet with the heads of the
> rivets gilded where they go through this layer.  Some excellent
> examples were dug up at Visby in Denmark, the weather was hot so the
> bodies were buried before the armour was stripped.  This site has also
> provided insights to the Medieval styles of combat by the marks left
> on their skeletons and Armour (well worth reading).
> 
> Lamellar.  The metal plates were wired together and did not need a
> backing (it still needed padding).  This made a defense stronger than
> scale (there was no direction from which penetration was easy), but
> less flexible, but still more flexible than plate
> 
> What are your rules on alternative materials for the construction of
> these armours?
> 
> David


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