Re: Subskills

[Rodger Thorm <dqn@earthlink.net>]

I'm sure that no matter how we carve things up, there will be instances where a player's character concept won't fit, and the player and GM will need to work something out that is beyond the rules, even expanded rules.  I think that it's better to focus on what is reasonable for the majority of cases, rather than trying to address every possibility.

Another thing to think about is the provenance of the skill.  Where, for example, does this orator learn his skill, if not from a Troubador?  DragonQuest places a strong emphasis on instruction in support of learning new skills.  Mages have to find someone to teach them spells, and characters learning new skills or weapons abilities get great benefit from learning from someone who already knows the ability.

It is also important to keep from breaking everything down into a list of individual tasks.  (If I wanted that, I'd go play GURPS.)  Healer, in particular, is a whole skill and should not be broken into individual skills.  Some things may not be taught, except as part of a larger body of knowledge.  (Imagine trying to learn just how to do an appendectomy, without becoming a doctor, for example.)


My first reaction was that maybe Military Scientist is a better choice if the character wants armies to follow him :-)  

Bardic Voice is a magical ability, above and beyond merely persuasive oration, just as the Healer's abilities are above and beyond medicine.  If the player really wants to play Marc Antony and be able to move crowds with political speeches, I would either see if there's enough room in Troubador to play it as is (option B), or add some extra sub-specialties that were appropriate and useful to that player (options C/D).  

Option A is completely unfair, I agree.  The player should be judged for playing the character concept, not for fitting into a pigeon hole concept of what a Troubador must be.

I think that each task or subskill should be evaluated individually, rather than breaking it out as a percentage of its parent skill.  Some in particular may warrant higher EXP costs based on game balance and playability (in order to make sure that it doesn't become less expensive to cherry pick subskills, rather than taking the parent skills).  

Finally, there are two other questions to consider:  If a character has more than one subskill of a particular skill, can they rank those separately, or should they be tied together in some way?  And secondly, how does ranking in subskills factor into characters progressing from Mercenary through Adventurer to Hero?

  --Rodger Thorm

-------Original Message-------
dbarrass_2000 <david.barrass@e..> wrote:

On the whole I agree with this. However, what about the character 
that says "I want to be an orator and persuade armies to follow me" 
(a lawyer is another example).  A Troubadour's Bardic voice is the 
ability that best models this, but he might say "I'll never use amuse 
semi-intelligent creatures or any other the other abilities, so why 
should I pay for them?"

I can see some responses
a) That's tough you've got them, and if you use them you're going 
against character and I'll penalise you. My own feeling is that this 
is unfair
b) There are actually a few that would be useful, eg dress 
appropriately and defer a decision for a rank or two
c) How about if we modify some of the abilities, say - compose 
stories is actually speech writing?.  Again this will defer a 
decision till higher ranks.
d) OK you don't want these, how about these abilities instead, eg 
project voice instead of play instrument?  These would have to be 
modelled and appropriate to the exp cost for the skill
e) Say alright, we'll half the exp cost to advance, but you only get 
bardic voice

a to c are not fully acceptable, d to e require some thought about 
the relative costing of sub-skills.  I feel there are at least three 
parameters, 
difficulty of performing the skill, 
power (to keep the game in balance) and 
cost or the skill (its no use having the skill cheaper to buy in its 
component parts)

DQ can give us some clues, based on the base chance, increase for 
each rank, and the value appropriate characteristics in the use of 
the ability.
A sub skill that is 90 + Rank, ie the easiest, least powerful sub 
skills could cost 1/5 of the total cost of the skill it was a part of

Does any one have any other thoughts?

David